As the Ukraine situation intensifies, ASPI executive director Peter Jennings talks with Russia specialists Paul Dibb ^[1] and Kyle Wilson ^[2] about the likelihood of a Russian invasion and how far it would go, what Vladimir Putin hopes to gain and what a military campaign could cost both countries. The three discuss options for NATO, whether sanctions could hurt Russia and Putin enough to deter an attack and what Australia should be doing other than counselling for peace and providing some cybersecurity assistance to Ukraine.

A transcript of the discussion is available here ^[3].